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Post by William on Dec 18, 2003 23:40:16 GMT -5
yes, there is a normal, the seocital norm is: the ethics (morals adjusted to time, actions, and additude of current culture), and the actions of our current seociety as protrayed as a whole...
the norm is the most coherent trend...
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Post by William on Dec 18, 2003 23:42:12 GMT -5
good point kenny, i think weve talked about this before, but if i understand correctly, your saying that homosexuality is a sin unless someone repents for it. its a tough call. then you didnt understand incorrectly...i stated that horribly... its not a 'sin unless you repent', its always a sin, but it is not a blocking plank in your eye...you can help others even if your sinning, as long as it isnt blinding you... if you dont try to fix your own sins, dont try to fix others first... is that more clear? and about the two posts, i figured, its a direct respons to two other posts, so i didnt want to change trains of thoughts quickly in one post, so the devision adds a lot of seperate thought... |
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Post by Brian on Dec 19, 2003 11:44:23 GMT -5
You make a good point, but I'm still confused. Are you saying that you can help someone, just don't correct them. Correcting them, as in, pointing out that what they're doing is wrong, and in all reality saying that they are a sinner for it. I also don't understand why people think that "sinner" qualifies as an insult.
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Post by William on Dec 20, 2003 10:50:12 GMT -5
i agree with you...
but sinner can be taken as an insult if your putting yourself above them (condescending), or putting them down for it (condemning)...those were the two situations i think the matthew five verse applies to, telling you not to do either of those...its still sinning...
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Post by abcba1 on Dec 29, 2003 2:35:36 GMT -5
actually there's no proof of that. Think about this: God gives all people free will. If he makes gays, he also then makes murderers, and theives, and also great people. But hey.....wait a minute.....here's an idea.......what if being gay was an act of free will, a choice. Hmmmmm, thus if you believe in God at all you can see how he didn't make people gay. ok, then god gives people the choice to have brown hair or green eyes too? why would anyone choose to be gay given the negative attitude people like you (who are all too common) give to it? if homosexuality is a choice, then you be gay today. go ahead, choose to be attracted to the same sex just for today and then choose to go back to heterosexuality tomorrow. what? you cant? what a fucking surprise. |
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Post by William on Dec 30, 2003 0:53:15 GMT -5
more important...God gives us free will...where is this in the bible? huh? or does it just say God gives us the ability to surcome to sin...
because i can give you plenty of examples of predestination...
im not saying its not there...i just havent found it...and people use it as a given...while they cant always back it up...
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Post by JadeGriffon on Feb 14, 2004 15:42:49 GMT -5
Sorry if what I post has been gone over, but I didn't feel like reading 22 pages of posts. Anyways, here's my view on homosexuality. It's a sin. We all sin, though. God created us in a manner where men and women have sexual relations, not men/men or women/women. Its sorta spiting God. You don't want to do that. My sister thinks people can't control whether they're gay or not, but I disagree. At the least they can not have sex at all, if they have the urge to have sex with the same sex. So, its a sin, but though we all sin, they can stop instead of continuing to sin time after time.
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Post by elementalspirit on Feb 18, 2004 18:32:49 GMT -5
I, also, am NOT planning on reading 22 pages of posts.
Homosexuality is no more wrong than Downs Syndrome. True homosexuality, scientists are currently looking into, is caused by slight mutation. Meaning it is genetic. Meaning GOD PUT IT THERE.
Now, I'm sure there are some people who just "try it out." Some people who are gay because of traumatic experiences in their past. I still see no problem with homosexuality. If I had been raped several times by a man, I wouldn't be surprised to find myself changing preferences FAST. And everyone experiments, its a part of finding who you are.
If anyone whips their Bibles out on me, I end with this remark: The section of the Bible that condemns homosexuality is the same part which said it is okay to kill a starving child for stealing food to survive, and it is okay to beat your wife.
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Post by William on Feb 19, 2004 0:32:25 GMT -5
i wont whip out a bible unless i know the person takes it entirely as Truth...otherwise...as you pointed out almost...why should you belive in it...you dont have to...
but...False...homosexuality is not a mutation, they believed it was a tweak and imbalance in hormones (the only mutation possible to effect sexual attractions) but they could not find it...they tested it anyways by inserting levels of hormones into test subjects in many different varients...this did not work...
Homosexuality is a sin, it is not put there by God, but God acted indifferently upon it entering us as a Sin and did not prevent it (because we pulled it upon ourselves)...
Homosexuality as an urge is exactly like the urge to steal, or lie, or lust, or covet, or swear, or any other sin (i entered cussing although it is not a sin, the attraction to lust homosexuality is very similar to a urge to cuss though...)...homosexuality is lust for someone of the same sex...commiting sex or not...if you lust the sin is commited...just as i lust for a woman, if i lusted for a man it would also be a sin...
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Post by Swanny on Feb 19, 2004 12:20:26 GMT -5
homosexuality (in God's eyes) is just as bad as saying God*#&$ or lieing to your parents, or lusting. as long as someone is repentent for their sins, its all ok in God's eyes.
here are those verses about the planks and specks and what not.
Matthew 7:4-5
How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye
Luke 6:41
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
Luke 6:42
How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
there your are
~Swanny
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Post by JadeGriffon on Feb 19, 2004 18:35:45 GMT -5
homosexuality (in God's eyes) is just as bad as saying God*#&$ or lieing to your parents, or lusting. as long as someone is repentent for their sins, its all ok in God's eyes. here are those verses about the planks and specks and what not. Matthew 7:4-5 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye Luke 6:41 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? Luke 6:42 How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. Yes, its a sin, so I don't have a deep hatred for gay people, since we all sin. And though you can repent for your sins, I don't its good when people choose a sinful sexual preference. You shouldn't freely commit sins because you know you can repent for them. I think homosexuality should be discouraged. I am aware of my own shortcomings and sins, so I shouldn't being judging others, but I don' approve of homosexuality. |
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Post by Wilshire on Feb 19, 2004 22:43:28 GMT -5
Exactly. It, being a sin, is something you must ultimately chose. Its sort of like someone always having an angry disposition because of their surroundings and environment as a child. Its like a kid thinking sex is ok because its all over the media. It is the people that chose to do these things, they're not forced into it. But their weaknesses (and we all have the same weaknesses) give way to these sins.
People are too quick to condemn someone as a hater or a homophope or a racist or whatever it may be. Because I disagree with homosexuality, DOES NOT mean that I hate homosexuals. Too many people jump to that conclusion and make that assumption, when it clearly isn't true. But oh well, i guess that always happense somewhere and sometime.
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Post by William on Feb 20, 2004 11:05:27 GMT -5
i strongly agree people jump to the conclusions way too quickly.
But because its a sin does not mean you have any right to continue it just because you will be forgiven, but its still a strong temptation, i have no beef with those who admit its a sin and struggle with it, i am just upset with those who deny it as a sin.
the church does not excommunicate homosexuals, they excommunicate those who are living in sin and will not accpet it is a sin, and encourage others with the same sin...
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Post by JadeGriffon on Feb 20, 2004 18:07:13 GMT -5
Exactly. It, being a sin, is something you must ultimately chose. Its sort of like someone always having an angry disposition because of their surroundings and environment as a child. Its like a kid thinking sex is ok because its all over the media. It is the people that chose to do these things, they're not forced into it. But their weaknesses (and we all have the same weaknesses) give way to these sins. Because I disagree with homosexuality, DOES NOT mean that I hate homosexuals. Too many people jump to that conclusion and make that assumption, when it clearly isn't true. Yeah, far too many people think that you hate homosexuals just because you are against homosexuality. I'm against it, but I don't hate gay people. About your first paragraph. There are many influences in the world that aren't good, and make bad things seem ok to do, but people must learn to see the Truth and not sucumb to sin. And I totally agree with William, just because you can be forgiven of your sins doesn't mean you are right in continuing to sin (I actually did say this in my earlier post, but I might not have been clear). |
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foehammer
Big Gulp
and...bring me that horizon!
Posts: 209
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Post by foehammer on Feb 21, 2004 1:16:13 GMT -5
I must apologize for not reading the 19 pages preceding this one. It's late, and I just want to post my opinion, and I may come back and read the rest eventually but I doubt it.
God didn't make murderers, nor did He make homosexuals or any sort of sinners. Being a homosexual is not a sin, committing acts considered unnatural is. Lust is a sin, gay or straight. I myself don't believe in what sin is the same way as the Catholic Church explains it; if sinning is weakening your relationship with God, I don't feel that any of those things necessarily have to weaken your relationship with God. God gave us freedom of choice, and if God is love do you really think He's a bigot?
I don't believe homosexuality is wrong, nor do I believe people choose to be homosexuals. I don't have much evidence to back that up, having never asked a homosexual why their lifestyle is as it is. But I doubt that God directly influences people's choice of lifestyle - God doesn't make murderers. I should also note that I don't believe in God as a sentient entity; God may still create each one of us but I have to believe that the scientific information we've found about our own beginnings has to have something to do with it too.
This has called to my mind some really weird shit about heaven and creation and other things which don't really fit in this thread, so I won't post them here. I will have to examine my beliefs once more and make some more decisions. Like how they fit into the Catholic belief system I was raised in.
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