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Post by William on Nov 24, 2003 22:56:28 GMT -5
i strongly agree with the idea of homosexuality as a whole being wrong, but the people are fine, nothing against anyone. I mean i think lust is wrong, yet i do it myself (trying not to)...so i have no right to claim to be better than anyone else...
It seems that today if you disagree with homosexuality, your homophobic, but if your not homophobic then you must support homosexuality...there is never only two options in a decision to make about your ethics...society seems to disagree...
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Post by JumpinJackFlash on Nov 25, 2003 10:21:37 GMT -5
you know, a wise man once said we are all free to do what we choose, so why should we be the ones to consider homosexuality right or wrong, it's not right or wrong ultra-conservative people who cant deal with individuality deem it to be wrong. if you cant handle someone else being gay, take a closer look at your own sexuality
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Post by William on Nov 25, 2003 22:41:01 GMT -5
ok...thats well written, but i totally disagree...that abolishes absolutes...
that says that no moral can be absolute, there can be no absolute truths, and thats wrong...
that would permit murder...that would permit me sexualy raping you and your family and deem it rational and acceptable, and deems that anyone who disagrees with it should see if they also want to murder people...
so well thought, but wrong...
example>>>
you know, a wise man once said we are all free to do what we choose, so why should we be the ones to consider murder and rape right or wrong, it's not right or wrong ultra-conservative people who cant deal with individuality deem it to be wrong. if you cant handle someone else raping your dead mother, take a closer look at your own inner hate...
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Post by wuggmania on Dec 12, 2003 9:22:37 GMT -5
Ok, so here's my first post. I've been told that people have posted hate mail about me in the past on this site, so i figure I'll give you people some ammunition.
First, I agree with William about the idea that society seems to think that you are either totally in favor and support of homosexuality or you are a gay hater and homophobe. That's the way the media portrays it. Just look at all the gay tv shows. But in reality (some poeple actually have a grip on this) there is a huge third group. People who understand that homosexuality is inconsistent with God's plan, but still have homosexual friends, whom they love, accept and respect (and hug, by the way). I haven't seen much of this group on this board. I've seen hate and I've seen 'fine, whatever, leave them alone' mentality, but I haven't seen much love and compassion. There isn't a gay person who doesn't struggle with their gayness. Our society is stacked against them in so many ways, and they are often ostracized and hated by their own families. Everyone's response to finding out someone close to them is gay is usually one of two extremes: Shock and hate, or simple, ignorant acceptance. I don't think that either of these extremes really helps the gay person. We all understand why hate hurts. But why does simple, ignorant acceptance hurt the gay person?
Well, imagine that you are a teenager who has grown up in a 'straight' home, you go to church, or temple, or mosque or whatever. Maybe not every week, maybe very rarely at all, but almost all families have some connection with a religion - the majority of which understand that homosexuality is inconsistent with God's plan. Around puberty, you begin to have strange feelings towards the same sex that you don't understand. They seem to run counter to all you've ever been taught, and counter to how everyone else is. You are confused and frustrated. You hide it. It produces shame. You bury it. Buried emotions produce problems in ALL your relationships - friends, family members, and especially GOD. You feel like God will never accept you. you hear (incorrectly) that homosexuality is something you're born with and can do nothing about, and you hear (incorrectly) that God hates homosexuals, so you begin to think that you were born evil and have no chance of ever approaching God, and since that idea will eventually drive you insane, you simply dismiss the idea that God exists or rationallize a God that is different from the God of the Bible, Torah or Quoran or whatever. Now, when someone says to you, "It's ok, you were born that way, you are free to be gay and there's nothing wrong with that." It may release you from shame and guilt and all that stuff temporarily. But it also completes your separation from God.
I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but I firmly believe that every person, gay or straight, black or white, tall or short, has an emptiness inside them that can only be filled with God. And if that emptiness remains empty, something will always chew at you from the inside, and the guilt and shame and confusion and frustration will never really go away deep inside you. And that has nothing to do with being gay or straight, so don't tell me that you are gay and I'm hating because I'm judging your heart. I'm saying that this happens to everyone because we are all sinners and estranged from God.
But do you see how simple acceptance of homosexuality, although it makes homosexuals feel good on the outside in an earthly way, does a great disservice to them on the inside and in an eternal way?
What if instead we struggled along side them? What if we embraced our homoexual friends as brothers and sisters and walked by their side, admitting that we don't have all the answers, feeling just as hurt and attacked as they are by the haters, defending their feelings and their rights, trying to understand their innermost feelings, the feelings they cannot control, the confusion, the frustration, and most importantly the struggle with how to approach God. What if we went before the altar of God hand in hand and said, "God, what is going on here? Why do we feel this way? Why do you say what you say? How are we supposed to deal with this?" And what if we realized that we are all sinners, and we realized that Jesus Christ doesn't give a rats butt about our sin, He just wants to love us and forgive us and hold us close. And what if we never said to a homosexual person, "You have to change before you can have this kind of a relationship with Jesus!" What if we realized that you can be gay and be just as close to Jesus as anyone else?
Ok, I'm finished. God Bless You. Go ahead and Tee off on me.
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DarkNightmare
X-Treme Gulp
Well, I dreamed that the world was comin' down, We sat on my back porch, and watched it...
Posts: 475
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Post by DarkNightmare on Dec 12, 2003 12:41:28 GMT -5
hmm... The people who were posting hate about you, well... let's just say Scott handled them... And they were just randomly attacking you, I don't even think they knew anything about you. Hopefully, you won't get anymore problems...
Okay, my response...
I like your all-inclusive attitude, and the wake-up call about the "third group". good stuff there. I'd also suggest that those are the same people who, like me, feel that a single aspect of an individual is not the whole person. You're gay, I'm straight... but we both rock at video games. there's nothing wrong there. I wouldn't mind that at all.
Now I can't say that I have any homosexual friends (that I'm aware of) but that's basically a circumstantial problem, mine being my distance from the rest of (normal) society.
There's alot of good ideas and wake-up calls there that I not only agree with you on, but have arrived at (a few, that is) on my own. Speaking out against one part of humanity does inded do us all a great disservice.
And you wanna know the best part of your points? while they are very religious by definition, even I, who for the most part finds dissatisfaction with religion, can grasp and agree with them.
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Post by scott on Dec 12, 2003 16:47:59 GMT -5
I think for people to like other people of the same sex isn't the "norm" but I have no problem with it. But people having sex with other people of the same sex,now that I am against. I said that a long time ago,but my view has changed. Admitting to being gay is pretty much admitting lust,yet doing nothing about it.So my stance now is that being gay and not doing anything to not be gay is wrong. |
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Post by bob on Dec 12, 2003 18:30:36 GMT -5
wugg... that was absolutely brilliant
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Post by SockRocker on Dec 12, 2003 19:14:25 GMT -5
i second that....very well put....(i dont think id have the patientce to type that all out....)
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Post by bob on Dec 12, 2003 20:50:01 GMT -5
for real, i dont hate gays at all but they are definately against God's plan, but so are the rest of us.
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Post by xenocide7375 on Dec 14, 2003 15:10:40 GMT -5
that was a fine speech, very insightful
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Post by scott on Dec 14, 2003 15:12:08 GMT -5
for real, i dont hate gays at all but they are definately against God's plan, but so are the rest of us. Yea that is a good point,I never thought of it like that...makes you think... And yes,well written Mr.Mania. |
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Post by SockRocker on Dec 15, 2003 18:15:22 GMT -5
yeah...its like why do they get trashed for one sinful desire, when we ourselves have so many? its like that one quote in the bible "before you go to remove the speck of dust in your neighbors eye, you must first remove the plank in your own" cant remember where it was.....
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Post by William on Dec 17, 2003 14:31:59 GMT -5
matthew 5 (the semron on the mount)
the idea is that they deny that it is a sin often (this is a generalization of about 90% of them), and we will admit ours...
i may sin, but becuase i sin, is not a reason for me not to point out to them that they are sinning
corinthians "if you see a brother sinning, gently restore him"
so, if you deny your own sins, dont be a hypocrite, but if you realize you are sinning and are working against it, then you can try to help others...
its a close issue, but another focus of the speck in a brothers eye verse is the idea of being better than another, "if you think your sinless, dont point out others sins", we are all sinful, but some dont realize when they are sinning...
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Post by bob on Dec 17, 2003 15:50:35 GMT -5
good point kenny, i think weve talked about this before, but if i understand correctly, your saying that homosexuality is a sin unless someone repents for it. its a tough call.
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Raptor_18
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All up ons
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Posts: 473
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Post by Raptor_18 on Dec 18, 2003 20:06:07 GMT -5
Define normal. In our society we all see things different so is there really one definate answer?
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