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Post by Wilshire on Jan 25, 2004 23:26:26 GMT -5
Here is a bit of interesting facts... in 2002 30 people fromthe US were killed by a form of terriorism.None were even in the US.More people died in 2002 plowing their snow. Wow. Here's an interesting fact. Thousands of American's were killed by terrorists who hijakced planes and flew them into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and also into the ground. These Americans were in the US. And also, American soldiers are still being killed by terrorists and loyalists to Sadaam Heusein who killed thousands of innocent people in the past and was in possession of the means to create WMD and did have close relations with terrorist groups. People are still dying from plowing their snow
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Post by scott on Jan 25, 2004 23:39:11 GMT -5
American soldiers are still being killed by terrorists and loyalists to Sadaam Heusein That wouldn't have happened if we had not entered the war,Bush brought that on himself.
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Post by Mark617 on Jan 25, 2004 23:44:20 GMT -5
Don't worry William, you're alright. I was mainly lashing out at Wilshire and the like. You at least use your head. Now where was I? Ah yes, you and your founding fathers. You do realize The Bill of Rights was written by wealthy, sexist slaveowners like George Washington, right? The fact is, that document is not only over 200 years old, but was written directly after a long, bloody war, when violence was engraved in the minds of the American people. Tell me, how much can a document like The Bill of Rights apply today if it "accidentally forgot" to include tiny things like freeing slaves or allowing women to vote? Fact of the matter is, your proud American ideals are nothing but outdated bullshit, their authors greedy, despicable hypocrites. All men are created equal, except for females, negroes, Indians, and the poor, right? It is absolutely and completely inarguable that those men were totally and utterly full of shit. And have you put any thought into why Communism hasn't worked? It's because they've tried it in the wrong countries. Communism is a system that relies heavily on agriculture and self sustenance, and if you think about the frozen desert that is Russia, they really couldn't have chosen a crappier setting. It also takes a lot of money to make it work, in order to fund all of the government programs. Do you know of any countries in the world that have a big farming industry and lots of money? Hmmmm, sounds kind of like....but it can't be.....America. America is the richest country in the world, and we have enough land and resources to feed the entire world population with the amount of food we produce. We just choose not to feed the world because it's not good for profit. I'll say it straight out now; America is the perfect country, the only country, for Communism to work. But we have too much pride to ever adopt the system that we've killed hundreds of thousands in order to defeat. But really, name one good reason why America shouldn't pull a Switzerland and just declare neutrality, and avoid a future of endless war? Not all of us thrive on hatred, after all. Let's throw down our weapons and call it quits, people. Can I get an Amen? dear Lord, im sick of this shit. first off, George Washington has absolutly nothing to do with the constitution, madison wrote most of it. also, not all the delegates at the constitutional convention were slave holders--in fact, many (like john adams) were strictly against it. also, nobody said these guys were perfect, but they were brilliant. just the fact that the system they created was able to adapt to the times and fix mistakes made by the founders proves this. also, you said that america does not give foreign aid to other nations. well your plain ole wrong. we give other nations millions of dollars in food and money. simple as that. you think that america is perfect for communism? ever think that america is so rich and prosperous because it did not embrace communism? if we got rid of capotalism in favor of communism, our country would go down the tubes and be just as poor as any other country. one reason we shouldnt stay neutral? cause we already tried that. why do you think it took us so long to enter WWII? cause we were neutral! wow, that was hard. and you know what was allowed to happen because we were neutral? something called the Holocaust (forgive me if misspelled that). also, just a note to every one: communism isnt a form of government, its an economic system. so unojuno, communism is permanent but the government isnt. back with more later
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Post by Mark617 on Jan 25, 2004 23:45:55 GMT -5
That wouldn't have happened if we had not entered the war,Bush brought that on himself. wow, i didnt think id be back this quick. neways, if we didnt enter the war, then even more people would be killed by sadaam and his people.
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Post by Sarien on Jan 26, 2004 0:13:00 GMT -5
Hmm...I'm not entering this debate just yet, I'd have to read the many posts. I just thought I'd give you all an amusing thing to do. Type "miserable failure" in Google. Look at the first link that pops up.
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Chaps
Big Gulp
Dont be fay
Posts: 134
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Post by Chaps on Jan 26, 2004 11:43:08 GMT -5
there was no point for the war except that bush wanted to control all the oil exported from those countries
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eric
Big Gulp
thats rite
Posts: 186
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Post by eric on Jan 26, 2004 13:54:22 GMT -5
there was no point for the war except that bush wanted to control all the oil exported from those countries Steve SteveSteve!!!!NO :-( the war in iraq was not purely over oil. The war was in response to 9/11! Saddam and his boyfriend Osama were killing everyone :-( I think the oil was the least important part of the war....
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Post by Wilshire on Jan 26, 2004 16:44:21 GMT -5
there was no point for the war except that bush wanted to control all the oil exported from those countries Um...wrong! Don't listen to that liberal bullshit. Thats what they want you to think because that makes Bush look like he went to war for a dumb reason and that he's greedy, so then you would vote for the next democrat. There is no proof of that anyway. We went to war because Iraq posed a threat to the US. There were definite connections between 9/11 and terrorists in Iraq, being harbored and supported by Sadaam, who was in any case oppressing people in his country. That is why we went. After Iraq's new government is set up, I'm sure Bush would be glad to buy oil from them at fair prices, which gets us oil and kickstarts their economy. We didn't go to war over oil, so stop saying it.
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Post by Mark617 on Jan 26, 2004 18:35:42 GMT -5
Um...wrong! Don't listen to that liberal bullshit. Thats what they want you to think because that makes Bush look like he went to war for a dumb reason and that he's greedy, so then you would vote for the next democrat. There is no proof of that anyway. We went to war because Iraq posed a threat to the US. There were definite connections between 9/11 and terrorists in Iraq, being harbored and supported by Sadaam, who was in any case oppressing people in his country. That is why we went. After Iraq's new government is set up, I'm sure Bush would be glad to buy oil from them at fair prices, which gets us oil and kickstarts their economy. We didn't go to war over oil, so stop saying it. besides that there is the whole humanitarian aspect of the war. disposing of an evil despot (sp?) is always a plus in my book. also, if the war was for oil, then where the hell is it? gas prices havent gone down any significant amount, which would result from us controlling iraq's oil. fact is, the US is giving the oil fields back to the people, itll be used to help pay back countries that owe iraq money and to help iraq eventually become prosperous
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Post by scott on Jan 26, 2004 20:08:17 GMT -5
We went to war because Iraq posed a threat to the US. There were definite connections between 9/11 and terrorists in Iraq, being harbored and supported by Sadaam While I hate these damn political arguments I have to say that that was NEVER proven.Bush said that as a way to get more people to want to go to war.It's all about scare tactics. The government like to manufacture the illusion of safety.Just want us to come on buying and uphoding the economy. "So it's time to cancel my subscription I just can't stomach any more of their lies Wealth the spectacle of a greedy solution And that's the bottom line Now I'm not buying anything that they're selling Not givin' in this time" I am not consuming.
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Post by Swanny on Jan 26, 2004 20:16:21 GMT -5
yea you know theres this thing called war and when soldiers fight in it, they have a risk of getting killed. the people killing the americans aren't "terrorists" they are "soliders" and they are killing before they get killed. actually war is a very simple concept that even simple minds can understand.
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eric
Big Gulp
thats rite
Posts: 186
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Post by eric on Jan 26, 2004 20:38:57 GMT -5
yea you know theres this thing called war and when soldiers fight in it, they have a risk of getting killed. the people killing the americans aren't "terrorists" they are "soliders" and they are killing before they get killed. actually war is a very simple concept that even simple minds can understand. you can be a terrorist and a soldier terrorism is a strategy merriam-webster defines terrorism as..... the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion
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Post by Swanny on Jan 26, 2004 21:30:41 GMT -5
as long as someone dies, its really all the same...strategies or not. the purpose of a war is to kill the other people and whatever you do to do it, you do it.
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Post by msuhockeycj on Jan 26, 2004 21:50:13 GMT -5
Ok while Bush has been in office we have been in two wars. Some people may argue that the war against afganastan was a must because of 9/11, but what if bush was never elected, would those attacks still have happened, or was bush to busy destroying the evirnment to think about terrorism. And the war against iraq was total crap, hey brief, where are those weapons of mass destruction. Who's gonna be next on the bush hit list. And now a little off topic, but still relevant to bush. During a convorsation with the President of Brazil bush asks the question "you have blacks too?" honestly people, is this the guy who we want leading the most powerful nation in the world?
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Post by Swanny on Jan 26, 2004 21:57:26 GMT -5
George W. Bush Resume
Past work experience:
Ran for congress and lost.
Produced a Hollywood slasher B movie.
Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas, company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.
Bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using tax-payer money. Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to the Chicago White Sox.
With fathers help (and his name) was elected Governor of Texas.
Accomplishments: Changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union. Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog ridden city in America. Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money. Set record for most executions by any Governor in American history.
Became president after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes, with the help of my fathers appointments to the Supreme Court.
Accomplishments as president:
Attacked and took over two countries.
Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.
Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.
Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.
Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.
First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.
After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history.
Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips than any other president in US history.
In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.
Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.
Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.
Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
Signed more laws and executive orders circumventing the Constitution than any president in US history.
Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.
Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind. (http://www.hyperreal.org/~dana/marches/)
Dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.
My presidency is the most secretive and un-accountable of any in US history.
Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleezza Rice has an Chevron oil tanker named after her).
Had more states to simultaneously go bankrupt than any president in the history of the United States.
Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.
Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.
Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history.
First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.
First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board.
Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.
Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
Withdrew from the World Court of Law.
Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections).
All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
My biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.
First president in US history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
First president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)
First US president to establish a secret shadow government.
Took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).
With a policy of 'dis-engagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.
Fist US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.
First US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.
Failed to fulfill my pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'.
Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capitol building. After 18 months I have no leads and zero suspects.
In the 18 months following the 911 attacks I have successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.
Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.
In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the US has ever been since the civil war.
Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.
Records and References:
At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available).
AWOL from National Guard and Deserted the military during a time of war.
Refuse to take drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.
All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my fathers library, sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.
All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.
All minutes of meetings for any public corporation I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.
Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public review.
For personal references please speak to my daddy or uncle James Baker (They can be reached at their offices of the Carlyle Group for war-profiteering.)
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