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Post by scott on Jan 25, 2004 12:21:33 GMT -5
reaching complete good or complete evil is impossible. Yes that might be true,but we can always try to make peace and strive for it. Also is Dude where's my country worth the read?I might just buy it...and I think Unojuno and Ben pw0ned everyone,for now... Oh and don't say something is propaganda when you have never even seen it,that is like judging a book by it's cover.
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eric
Big Gulp
thats rite
Posts: 186
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Post by eric on Jan 25, 2004 12:32:48 GMT -5
there was a great quote i learned in eng. team. someone asked albert einstein what WW3 would be like...he answered "I don't know with which weapons WW3 will be fought, but WW4 will be fought with sticks and bones" amazing thought MISQUOTE! it was..... "I don't know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. "
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Post by unojuno on Jan 25, 2004 12:36:49 GMT -5
Yes that might be true,but we can always try to make peace and strive for it. Also is Dude where's my country worth the read?I might just buy it...and I think Unojuno and Ben pw0ned everyone,for now... I think it's worth it. You just have to beware. Very very political, but that's kinda obvious. I read it in peices because i can only take so much at once. He has quite a few good points, and many that are humorous. THough try to keep in mind that he too has some statements that are questionable. But everyone does. Whether you read something by Michael Moore, Al Frankin, Rush Lim(... dont want to spell that..) it's all directed to prove a point. It opens your mind though to question the current presidential administration. Also, i did mention (or at least i thought i did... maybe i forgot) that you shouldnt not give up to make things better. It's just the concept of a pure good apears quite fictional. But to educate and make society better as a whole where "evil" may be reduced can be a good thing.
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Post by BELETH the Mighty on Jan 25, 2004 13:08:33 GMT -5
Well spoken Ms. juno. And actually, George Carlin has some pretty good political views, if you read his Napalm and Silly Putty. Of course, some of them are just for the sake of comedy, but it's pretty easy to tell from what he means and what he's saying for a laugh. Most of it is in the "Rockets and Penises in the Persian Gulf" section.
Oh, and an amusing anecdote: In my creative writing class, we had a sub who was a complete idiot, and she thought that Einstein quote was making an allusion to "sticks and stones may break my bones". God, stupid people piss me off.
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Post by Swanny on Jan 25, 2004 16:03:56 GMT -5
hey back off phsyco, i'm sorry that i'm not a perfect typer and every word i type is perfectly spelled and every sentence is without an error
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eric
Big Gulp
thats rite
Posts: 186
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Post by eric on Jan 25, 2004 17:34:34 GMT -5
hey back off phsyco, i'm sorry that i'm not a perfect typer and every word i type is perfectly spelled and every sentence is without an error how hard is it!?!?! its PSYCHO!!!!
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Post by Strongbad on Jan 25, 2004 17:56:55 GMT -5
hey back off phsyco, i'm sorry that i'm not a perfect typer and every word i type is perfectly spelled and every sentence is without an error i agree with brief when you quote a famous man you should get it right idiot!
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Post by Wilshire on Jan 25, 2004 22:15:43 GMT -5
Now where was I? Ah yes, you and your founding fathers. You do realize The Bill of Rights was written by wealthy, sexist slaveowners like George Washington, right? The fact is, that document is not only over 200 years old, but was written directly after a long, bloody war, when violence was engraved in the minds of the American people. Tell me, how much can a document like The Bill of Rights apply today if it "accidentally forgot" to include tiny things like freeing slaves or allowing women to vote? Fact of the matter is, your proud American ideals are nothing but outdated bullshit, their authors greedy, despicable hypocrites. All men are created equal, except for females, negroes, Indians, and the poor, right? It is absolutely and completely inarguable that those men were totally and utterly full of shit. The Bill of Rights has also had ammendments that allow for the changing of the times. It applies today because the slaves WERE freed, women HAVE the right to vote. The founding fathers were wealthy and did own slaves, but were not sexists. They created the document that protects your right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. They were possible the smartest men of their time, with the idea of creating a country in which people are given "equal opportunity". People are not born equal in every respect, i know you know that. In America, people can work and improve their life. That is what is beautiful about America. We are equal because we all have a right to life, liberty, and the PURSUIT of happiness (its not just given to us, we have to go out and seek it through hard work). Our founding fathers realized these basic human rights, and established a country where they are protected. Women, negros, indians, etc... have these rights IN AMERICA!!, because of our founding fathers. They fought a war in violence to establish this country that guarantees ALL PEOPLE those rights. Of what relevance is it that it is 200 years old?? Perhaps its only a testament to it that a document written by people as bad as you say, has even managed to survive that long!! Not only survive, this country has prospered and grown amazingly. Apparently you dont agree with the constitution, you don't like what it did. If you oppose it, you're getting pretty damn close to treason. I get the impression from your words that you don't like the American way...and that is the problem with Michael Moore.
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Post by Wilshire on Jan 25, 2004 22:46:54 GMT -5
And have you put any thought into why Communism hasn't worked? It's because they've tried it in the wrong countries. Communism is a system that relies heavily on agriculture and self sustenance, and if you think about the frozen desert that is Russia, they really couldn't have chosen a crappier setting. It also takes a lot of money to make it work, in order to fund all of the government programs. Do you know of any countries in the world that have a big farming industry and lots of money? Hmmmm, sounds kind of like....but it can't be.....America. America is the richest country in the world, and we have enough land and resources to feed the entire world population with the amount of food we produce. We just choose not to feed the world because it's not good for profit. I'll say it straight out now; America is the perfect country, the only country, for Communism to work. But we have too much pride to ever adopt the system that we've killed hundreds of thousands in order to defeat. Did it ever enter your head that Communism never worked because it never will? Communism is and ideal that will never be achieved in its completeness. The fact that it has miserably failed in every country that ever attempted it in the past only provides evidence for this statement. The ideal system of communism is opposed to human nature. It makes all people equal in every respect, not just in the basic ways in which people are CREATED EQUAL. The fact of the matter is that people are not equal in social status or wealth. And it is not possible to hold them all equal at a good level. Inevitably, people can only be held "equal" at a crappy level, and even then, the authority is not equal to them. There must be someone to maintain order, and because that someone is in power, and they are wealthy, they must use force (violent and deadly force) to control the people. The only reason America is the richest country in the world is because it is founded on capitalism and democracy. Tell me if im getting this wrong, but it sounds like you want America to be communist, because its better than what America is now. We went to war to stop the rise of communism, because communism as it was in Russia and other countries was a threat to our way of life. In EVERY communist country, there was a murderous dictator. The people were held down. The dictator manipulates the system to gain personal power. That fact has nothing to do with agriculture and self-sustenance. There can be no communsim. If you can't see that communism will inevitably never work, and will always be a threat to the free world, then you are the one being deceived. Bit by bit, listening to people like Michael Moore, you will start to beleive the ideas they throw out in the open. How can one say that Moore is a patriot when he opposes the very base of America. He hates the fact that America is a place where only the people who work, who are willing to work, will succeed. Let me tell you a little fact about Moore you may not have heard. He used to work for General Motors. He admitted to having put lugnuts (sp?) in the dashboard of cars along with his other friends while he worked on the assembly line, so that when people drove them, the rattling noise pissed them off. He admits to doing this because he hated the fact that he was working on the line, while people sat in offices and made more money then him. Now he throws a bunch of this anti-american PROPAGANDA out in his stupid movies and in his stupid books, and people are deceived into thinking that he's really a thinker and really does love America despite its problems. He only perceives these things to be problems because he wants everyone to be equal, meaning he wants no one to be better than him. That despicable man doesn't support out troops as he so enthusiastically claims. In fact, most liberal politicans only say they do because if they didn't, people wouldn't vote for them. If you went to Iraq and died, Moore would say "its a shame he died for ideals that aren't there in our violent country". He's really thinking, "thank God he died so I can have another example to build my mountain of lies upon." He doesn't give a good god damn about America, he just wants to make his communist bullshit known to everyone. People, unfortunately, have lost sight of American ideals (they are still there) and will believe him. America is one of the only places where he would even be allowed to produce such movies and books! Im truly sorry that he is even allowed to say such things. But that comes with America. Plenty a brave American soldier has died in defence for Michael Moore's right to speak out against that which makes America so great. Too bad people will believe him, and too bad he can so easily poison people's minds.
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Post by scott on Jan 25, 2004 22:47:28 GMT -5
I get the impression from your words that you don't like the American way...and that is the problem with Michael Moore. So his problem is that he questions things and stands up for what he beleives? And what is this "American way" you speak of...
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Post by Mark617 on Jan 25, 2004 22:55:55 GMT -5
i was trying to read all that has been said since i last posted, but beezlebubb or whatever just pissed me off. you asked us all why we hate communism. i hate communism because of few things called "the great purge" and the "rape of czechoslavakia" just to name a few atrocities enacted by a government that supposidly preached "equality." i also hate it because basically every freedom that we enjoy in this country, and allowed the political elites to get rich while everyone else stuggled to survive. i hate it because communist governments have forced people to work on failing farms instead of allowing them to chose their own job. i hate communism because they dont allow people to practice any religion. these is just the beginning of this list, communism sucks--capitolism rocks
mike moore is an asshole. just because he questions authority doesnt mean he's right. to quote "the crucible"--"What's so holy about the accuser?" and in fact i have questioned some of bush's politicies. i dont like how he signed the spending bill, but that cant be blamed all on him--its congress' mess too. and i dont necessarily agree with this new illegal immigration thing he's proposing.
yes, guns obviously cannot create peace. but thats assuming that there's peace without them. fighting and wars are part of human nature. its so basic that it's part of basically every animal's nature. taking away a person's right to bear arms will not do anything to decrease violence because: A) then the only people with guns are criminals and cops, and B)if people dont have guns, then they'll hurt people in other ways.
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Post by Wilshire on Jan 25, 2004 23:00:13 GMT -5
But really, name one good reason why America shouldn't pull a Switzerland and just declare neutrality, and avoid a future of endless war? Not all of us thrive on hatred, after all. Let's throw down our weapons and call it quits, people. Can I get an Amen? Because America choses to defend itself against threats. Its been that way for 200 years. We've never truly lost a war. Whether you like it or not, a future of endless wars is what awaits America. Nations will always opposed a country that guarantees freedom and equal opportunity to everyone. Freedom will always have an enemy. No one should thrive on hatred. But Americans should thrive on the freedoms and opportunities this country gives to us. Its not hatred that has fueled this country pal. Its love for freedom and the guts to stand up to anything that poses a threat to that freedom. Apparently you don't have the love or the guts. We've come this far. You say we should just give up? What you're saying is that every soldier that died in the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, World War I and World War II, Korea, Vietnam, in the first Iraqi war and in the present one, and in every other conflict in America's history might as well have died in vain, because you're just gonna give up. "Throw down your weapons boys, lets just quit and let our freedom loving country go to hell. Hey Hitler, hey Stalin, hey Sadaam, you're welcome to keep oppressing freedom and killing millions of innocent people because we're stopping now!" Sounds like a plan. Well you might as well just not call yourself an American. Can you get an Amen? Can I get a shut the hell up you treacherous bastard?
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Post by Mark617 on Jan 25, 2004 23:11:24 GMT -5
jesus was a child who was planned on from the beginning of time. god knew that man would fall and jesus would have to be sent to save us, so yes, jesus was planned. it's the lack of gun laws in this country that made events like columbine possible. Comments welcome ~swanny Here's some comments. on your first part, your right in one sense. but the comment that jesus wasnt planned was in reference to Mary and Joseph, not God. if "unplanned child" refered to God, then no child could be unplanned because he plans everything. as for lack of gun laws allowing for columbine, thats just stupid and ignorant. columbine (and other tradgedies) were allowed to happen because people BROKE the laws that are in place. the kids who shot up columbine illegally bought guns that, in fact, are illegal. so if they would have followed the law, then it would not have happened
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Post by scott on Jan 25, 2004 23:19:10 GMT -5
Here is a bit of interesting facts...
in 2002 30 people fromthe US were killed by a form of terriorism.None were even in the US.More people died in 2002 plowing their snow.
Wow.
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Post by Wilshire on Jan 25, 2004 23:21:23 GMT -5
So his problem is that he questions things and stands up for what he beleives? And what is this "American way" you speak of... Okay... there is not a problem with standing up for what you believe in. But, not everyone who stands up is right. There is a problem with what he is saying, because it poses a threat to this country. His statements about gun laws in his movie are not the point. The point is that they reflect something that communist countries do, take away peoples guns, or even make it so hard to get them that no one will. Name one communist country in which people owned firearms. You can't. There wasn't one. If people had guns they would fight back. But the gun thing isn't the main point. His opposition to American rights, his denouncing of our government, reflect something deeper. The truth: he hates America. He hates it because he hates the American way. The "american way" is that people who are willing to work hard will suceed. They can work hard while their freedoms and rights are protected. The constitution says all men are "created" equal. They aren't equal in money and status as i said before. They all have rights to life, to liberty, and the right to pursue, through hard work, happiness. THAT is the American way. Michael Moore doesn't like that, he's a communist, so he wants everyone to be equal, and no one wealthier than him like those employers sitting in the offices of the GM plant. In his movies and books he throws out his ideas, his beliefs, and those beliefs are harmful because they little by little undermind America at its base (by opposing the "American way" ) He mentions everything that HE deems to be bad, blaming it on America's leaders and on its people. Some things he states are problems, but he poses solutions that will hurt America. People believe him though, and thats the problem.
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